be done in term of reaching the debt ceiling. both sides seem locked in -- the president said i'm not going talk about the debt ceiling. speaker boehner said it can't be done unless we cut spending at the same time. so having watched this for more than thirty years of congress, what are the outside of actually avoiding going over the cliff given where both parties are? >> i think the odds are that we won't do it. [inaudible] as a mart of faith and consequence. those who say let's toy with it. they are toying with the american economy and they are toying with the global economy. and so i think it's somewhat -- it seems great to talk about doing that. but the closer you get to that cliff, i think the less likely it is that you'll -- [inaudible] >> let me ask one more and go to rick. let me ask about tax reform. you told "politico" last week that a balanced approach to replacing the sequester was spending cut and revenue. should accelerate tax reform. i believe it's fully possible this year if we work on a bipartisan basis. unquote.